Turks wish to reinterpret hadith

Turkey, anxious to be accepted into the EC, has undertaken a ‘Hadith’ review, presumably to eliminate those elements that the West holds obscene and offensive to “fundamental human rights”* This is not “modern thinking” as you attest, this is an intelligent review, by scholars, to determine the truth so that the current interpretations, that are possibly corruptions for ‘control’ of the faith, can be exposed for what they are: untruths! Are you such a stone-age Sharia advocate that you are frightened of discovering the ‘truth?’ – from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor.....264903.stm

“…Turkish officials have been reticent about the revision of the Hadith until now, aware of the controversy it is likely to cause among traditionalist Muslims, but they have spoken to the BBC about the project, and their ambitious aims for it.

The forensic examination of the Hadiths has taken place in Ankara University’s School of Theology.

An adviser to the project, Felix Koerner, says some of the sayings – also known individually as “hadiths” – can be shown to have been invented hundreds of years after the Prophet Muhammad died, to serve the purposes of contemporary society.

“Unfortunately you can even justify through alleged hadiths, the Muslim – or pseudo-Muslim – practice of female genital mutilation,” he says.

“You can find messages which say ‘that is what the Prophet ordered us to do’. But you can show historically how they came into being, as influences from other cultures, that were then projected onto Islamic tradition.”

The argument is that Islamic tradition has been gradually hijacked by various – often conservative – cultures, seeking to use the religion for various forms of social control.

Leaders of the Hadith project say successive generations have embellished the text, attributing their political aims to the Prophet Muhammad himself….”

Muslims should not feel too bad if some of their most cherished ideals are shown to be ‘gross misunderstandings’, i.e. attributable to miscreant clerics with nation-control & political agendas – if verified by the Ankara Hadith review scholars. US born-again Christian evangelicals have a clear history of re-interpreting the Bible to further their own political ideology/agenda – successful as fully 35% of the US voting public believe the nonsense espoused by Jerry Falwell, et al in the evangelist drive that peaked when it delivered Bush to the White House in 2001 and again in 2004 – this year’s election will be another matter altogether as the best they can muster is the fool, Huckabee. Religion, the bane of secular humanity!

* A case in point – Hirsi Ali, an Ethiopian, was cliterectomized (genitals mutilated to deny her a libido) and ‘given’ in marriage to a Canadian. As a ‘chattel’ of her father she had no say in the matter. While in transit to Canada she fled – from Germany to Holland, were she studied and eventually become a Member of the Dutch Parliament – thereby simply realizing her potential as a free woman in the West. This is an extremely intelligent woman who chose freedom over the current barbarism of Sharia. And now under a death sentence by criminals (Muslim Sharia enforcers) she is once again in hiding in the EC. Shame on Islam and shame on Muslim women for permitting the atrocity that is their treatment under Sharia – the bedroom dictates an equal partner in Western sensibility, what would Neanderthals know of such spectacular women?

The Ankara initiative presents an opportunity for a bridge between Islam and the West, all that is needed is prolix in current rhetoric and a will by both ideologies to act in the best interest of: ‘universal human rights.’ If Islam cannot accept International human rights as paramount over religious doctrine (even the Catholics acknowledge this) the conflict will never end – this ‘slave to Sharia’ era must come to terms with its shortcomings.

It goes without saying that the actions of Israel, and the US in supporting Israel’s military sorties that have resulted in the ‘imprisonment’ and abuse of Palestinians is repugnant in the extreme to Western liberals, and together with the destruction of Lebanon in 2006, Israel should be indicted by the World Court for ‘crimes against humanity’ – with Bush gone, a revisit of UN 242 might have result if the new US Democrat administration gets behind and supports the UN. In passing, Hamas & Hezbollah are far from innocent in the Israeli/Arab conflict and many of the Palestinian & Lebanese civilian casualties are their sole responsibility!

Just wish to articulate my experience – met my future wife while both at college in London – and we were married in 1967. We traveled to her home in Tehran, Iran in 1968 and as a courtesy to her parents, we agreed to undertake an Islamic wedding while there. A friend of the family, the “Ayatollah of the Isfahan Shah Mosque” (with a following of 300,000) visited Tehran and married us. My wife’s father a practicing Muslim (he and his two brothers did the Hajj pilgrimage in the 70′s), her Mother an Armenian and my wife, a non practicing Muslim (myself a non-practicing Catholic) – no problem whatsoever for the Ayatollah, Western educated (Yale University, from memory) and very smart. Clearly by today’s standard of Iran’s Islamic zealotry established by Khomeini, we were all apostates (and the Ayatollah family friend probably imprisoned in 1979, as were many clerics too liberal for miscreant Khomeini)! My point is that Iran in the 60′s & 70′s a very different place than Iran from 1979 onwards and I simply wonder why it is that a lovely, tolerant, vibrant, cosmopolitan people permitted themselves to be bludgeoned into a West hating, Koran thumping isolationist rabble? Of course it was Khomeini and his 16th century Islamism that brought that nation into subservience to stone age cleric rule by coercion and brute force: http://www.danielpipes.org/article/321 *

* “The problem began in January 1989. That was when Muslims living in Bradford, England, decided to do something to show their anger about The Satanic Verses, a new novel by the famed writer Salman Rushdie that included passages making fun of the Prophet Muhammad . The Muslims, mostly Pakistani immigrants, purchased a copy of the novel, took it to a public square, attached it to a stake, and set it on fire. Television news showed this auto da fé in scandalized detail, and pictures of the scene were splashed across the British media for days, making it a major topic of discussion throughout the country…

… These events, in turn, caught the attention of Ayatollah Khomeini, the revolutionary ruler of Iran, who took prompt and drastic action: on February 14, 1989, he called upon “all zealous Muslims quickly to execute” not just Salman Rushdie as the author of The Satanic Verses but “all those involved in its publication who were aware of its content.” This edict led to emergency measures in England to protect Rushdie’s person, and to weeks and months of intense debate among the world’s politicians and intellectuals about the issues of freedom of speech and blasphemy…

… When the dust settled, Khomeini had failed in his specific goal of eliminating Rushdie physically: today, over a decade later, the author is once again writing well-received books and accepting literary awards. But if Khomeini did not manage to harm Rushdie, he did accomplish something far more profound: he stirred the souls of many Muslims, reviving a sense of confidence in their faith and a strong impatience with any denigration of it, as well as a determination to take the offensive against anyone perceived to be a blasphemer or even a critic. Although Khomeini himself passed from the scene just weeks after issuing his decree, the spirit it engendered is very much alive.

During the decade since 1989, many efforts have been undertaken by the forces of Islamism – otherwise known as Muslim fundamentalism – to silence critics. Ranging from outright violence to more sophisticated but no less effective techniques, they have produced impressive results….”

The Danish cartoons and the Hirsi Ali apostasy death threat just recent blips on the ‘hate the West’ mandate, inspired (sic) up by Khomeini. And the Sunni/Shiite infighting will never end? – http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6288091.stm The Ankara Hadith review and the recent BBC Doha debate show some light at the end of the Islam political tunnel?

Iran under the Khomeini-revolution (sic), a very similar development to Cuba under Castro – have visited Cuba and while the people are extremely generous, outgoing and friendly to foreign visitors, and their health service the envy of Latin America (one of my sons treated for a minor emergency), the armed military backdrop very serious indeed. Have been in the Cuban refugee section of Miami, Florida also – there you see the other side of the impact of Castro’s totalitarianism on families!

Iran under Ahamdinejad is coming to the nuclear brink, as did Cuba, and the West will simply not back down from the possibility of an isolated rogue state (North Korea, Lybia: Islamic, Communist, or other) becoming a nuclear-bomb power: http://www.reuters.com/article.....dChannel=0 With Bush gone early next year, and questionable that Ahmadinejad will survive a presidential election – unless he uses the Diebold voting machines that Bush used to win Florida & Ohio in 2000 & 2004 – the possibility of dialog between a Democrat in the White House and Iran never better. We have to get there from here and Peres last week talking of military action not helpful with Bush & the Zionist Neo Cons still wielding power in Washington: http://www.reuters.com/article.....0920080308 “… Peres said, however, if economic sanctions failed to persuade Iran to stop its contested nuclear program then “non-military options would be used up”….”

Dear Chris,

Even Western/Non-Muslim writers have come to three main conclusions:

• the central cause of terrorism is a long held tradition of colonialism and neocolonialism of Muslim countries going back more than 200 years.

• the West must at last treat the Muslim world just as fairly as other cultures and religions, and give up its policy of waging war on terrorism.

• Muslims must make a sustainable commitment to an Islam that stands for progress and tolerance.

The West is much more violent than the Muslim world. Millions of Arab civilians have been killed since colonialism began.

Faced with the warmongering of the West, it is really not surprising that support for Muslim extremists continues to grow.

Terrorists in Islamic disguise are murderers. The same holds true for the ringleaders disguised as Christians who wage wars of aggression in contravention of international law.

Muslims were and are at least as tolerant as Jews and Christians. They have made a major contribution to Western civilization.

Love of God and love of one‘s neighbor are the central commandments not only in the Bible but also in the Qur‘an

Dear Mohammad,

Agree with all of your points made, undisputable, however, must take serious issue with your notion: “…, and give up its policy of waging war on terrorism”

The current situation in Iraq & Afghanistan, and Israel’s conflicts with Hamas & Hezbollah are indeed the result of long term Western colonialism, however, the Taliban, al Qaeda, Hamas & Hezbollah are expressions of Islam so extreme as to warrant intervention due to their impact on the “hapless”, civilians of every religion/nationality caught in the crossfire. The 3,000 killed on 9/11 were similarly hapless: innocent civilians: http://www.altmuslim.com/a/a/a.....jahiliyya/

Terrorism, by modern definition, is the sacrifice of civilians as justification for the actions of military powers (US, NATO) attempting to stabilize nations embroiled in ‘civil war’: Afghanistan, Taliban stone age male dominated rule with the harshest interpretation of the Koran subjecting the population to servitude, misery and abject poverty. Gaza, the civilian population in the crossfire of Hammas lobbing rockets into Israel to kill Israeli civilians. Lebanon, Hezbollah aggravating the Israel border conflict resulting in the 2006 Lebanese civilian slaughter by Israel! (War Crimes by both combatants in my view.) Iraq, a centuries old Sunni/Shiite conflict. Saudi Arabia, bin Laden’s Wahhabis at odds with the Royals.

Israel refuses to accept UN 242 and is ethnic cleansing and building settlements on Arab land to ensure that the Palestinians are driven from its 1967 territory grab – East Jerusalem is the final frontier for Israel, once secured Israelis will be content to run the Palestinian compounds (defacto jails) established in Gaza & the West Bank until the Palestinians realize they are never going to create a nation and will leave for Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan.

There is little doubt that the election of George Bush in 2000 changed the US landscape to ‘hawk’ as the warmonger Republicans: Cheney & the Neo Cons, saw their opportunity to run unfettered military expansion – Islamic terrorist acts simply justify a disproportional military response as Republicans are driven by money – continuous war simply facilitates ever more public spending and profits for insiders! If Islamic terrorists would just STOP, the US war machine would collapse & evaporate – terrorism simply feeds the beast, “… we will be in Iraq for 100 years” – John McCain. War is a growth industry for the US, courtesy terrorist cowards: Muslim extremists who kill civilians – the most reprehensible act to Western sensibility. Islamic extremist’s cowardice is beneath contempt, terrorist participants are lower than dog shit!

Dear Chris,

Agreed with your points.

At the outset I want to make clear that I do not support terrorist acts. The likes of Taleban, AlQaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah all came about as a direct reaction to Muslims lands being attacked or manipulated by colonialism.

The West should let the Muslim world sort its own house itself instead of barging-in, all guns blazing, supporting and upholding puppet/impotent Arab governments/leaders.

Although the vast majority of the Muslim world disagrees with the methods of terrorist groups, I guess they see their stand as symbolic – a last ditch effort to show some diginity in holding up a fight which the West started and still disgraces the region with.

The West should allow the majority of peaceful muslims to get on with their internal affairs – just like the West has given India and China room to expand. Once established, the peaceful majority of muslims will easily silence the extremists. Moreover, the extremists themselves will probably not see a need for extreme measures?

It needs to be an internal affair. An outsider (the West) is seen as a big bully no matter what the intentions.

Hi Mohammed:

Support your notion of Muslim societies clearing out from within, always have, and why I consider Muslim women culpable in terrorism – someone has to feed these cowardly jerks. Colonialism a fact of life for centuries (Romans in England, why some of the roads are straight) and not really a factor in the Middle East until oil was discovered in Saudi Arabia in 1933. Israel a UN solution post WW11 when England was broke and losing influence everywhere.

Communism defeated itself from within – the West had no part in it – terrorism should do the same thing, however, the ilk of cretin Abu Hamsa not helping – 50 years in a US jail will sort him out.

bin Laden needs to be eliminated, petty little coward cowering in the Afghan hills, someone should shoot him as a service to humanity!

Sorry about the ‘e’ Mohammad, no offense intended.

Just for clarification – bin Laden still kicking will greatly influence the US election – 50/50 that Bush clone, John McCain, could take the White House ‘and set the Iraq war for 100 years!’ Every bin Laden statement permits Bush to ‘whip up fear of terrorism’, with the stupid US public, yet again, which always results in re-election of warmonger Republicans – and yet more financial stimulus to wage even larger wars (war materiel is the most profitable industry in the US).

Eliminate bin Laden and a new Democratic administration will pull out of Iraq almost immediately, reduce the US military budget and its involvement world wide, will get behind the UN and force Israel to comply with UN 242, and possibly support the World Court and agree that Israel be tried for ‘crimes against humanity’ for the destruction of Lebanon in 2006.

Get terrorism stopped and the world will turn!

And today, bin Laden calls Muslims to arms in Iraq to free Gaza with fire & iron (how Israel was formed, sic): http://www.reuters.com/article.....dChannel=0

How can an acceleration in hostilities against the Americans possibly result is a Gaza solution, let alone a Iraq solution? Note that Moqtada al-Sadr was smart enough to figure this out, the reason he stopped his militias: http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind.....da_al-Sadr In passing, a-Sadr stopping hostilities coincided with Bush’s ‘surge’ in Iraq – the Americans doing better now as al-Sadr out of the picture (see how quickly Bush appropriated the reduction in hostilities as a ‘result of the surge’ – Bush, the moron foil of the Neo Cons). If the insurgents stopped in Iraq, the US would pull out almost immediately – clearly not bin Laden’s objective? And if Hammas would simply stop in Gaza, the people there might see some light. There is no military solution to Western military power, other than persuading them that bullying hapless populations is morally repugnant – suicide bombers and small insurgent group hit & run artists simply tilt the equation toward continued US/Isreali aggression.

bin Laden deals in mixed metaphors that will result in countless more Muslim dead throughout the Middle East. He is the jackal of Islam, a coward (his art is death of the innocent to a lost cause), a miscreant and no better than Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, or any other in the long line of tin-pot savage pretender/dictators intent on getting and keeping power. His view of Islam is a series of Taliban style fascist states from Morocco to Malaysia. A relief that he does not have the conviction of the people that a return to stone age benevolent paternalism and savagery is in any Muslim’s best interest.

Are you call yourself muslim? You are not and you are so blind to see that. Ataturk was a great leader! He saves Turks! Gave us freedom and you say “my Allah gives him what he deserves?” Let me say what he deserves. The best place in the heaven… You should start to ask yourself where will I be, not Ataturk will be…

Ashadu an la ilaha ill’llah wa ashadu anna Muhammadan ‘abduhu wa rasuluh

You have been brainwashed regarding the criminal Ataturk, he was an outright enemy of Islam and he is getting punished – inshallah.

Turkey is a Muslim country. However, there are non-muslim people in Turkey who are treated equally. Also, religion and love of God is something inside one’s heart, not in the outlook. Yo can not become a better Muslim by growing a beard if you don’t clean your heart.