Cartoons? We Were informed About Them

Assimilation is synonymous with emigration to the West – you left your country for a reason? No point in attempting to practice stone age Sharia when the secular West holds an individual’s human rights as the highest idea in the land (women are equals here, not chattels!). Get over it and assimilate or go home. That the West currently dominates by globalization – that need ‘buyers’ for success (Coke, Microsoft and hand guns for the masses) and continues its Imperialism: Arab oil – is a fact of life! Without the Taliban harboring bin Laden after 9/11, and the French & Russians corralling Saddam’s ‘food for oil’ contracts, cutting out the Americans, the Afghanistan & Iraq wars would not have happened – the wars are seen as a total-failure anyway by the US public, who will vote their opposition in November!

As before, please stay home and make your own countries livable – don’t jump ship to the West and expect that we will embrace ‘you and your religion’, a tough package for secular states to accept as would require reverse assimilation – not what we are about! Freedom of religion is guaranteed in secular states (that does not mean freedom of religion to dictate life-rules that are in opposition to human rights and the Law), Separation of Church & State mandatory with ‘rule of law’ and ‘human rights’ paramount! Israel & the Palestinians, that’s another story – suggest do the background/history work before you get into that one: http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict.asp

Imad Moughniyah* venerated in Lebanon today to blaring verses from the Koran – why the West sees absolute complicity between Islam, the fomenting of hatred for the West (Hamza), and terrorism!

* Wonder if the final body count of ‘civilian innocents’ attributable to this monster and his buddies will ever be tabulated?

From: http://www.reuters.com/article.....6520080323

“…Moughniyah’s tented gravesite lies a few kilometers from where the commemoration will take place. More than a hundred Hezbollah fighters are also buried there, including Nasrallah’s son, Hadi, who died fighting Israel in 1997. The site has seen a sharp increase in visits since Moughniyah’s death.
The grave, cut off part of a larger cemetery along southern Beirut’s main highway, is adorned with pictures of dead Hezbollah fighters and Koranic verses blare from loudspeakers…”

All you have to do is take a stand at your Koran being used to further the terrorist cause?

In passing, assimilation has nothing to do with religion – the last thing the West asks is that Muslims give up their religion, or, heaven forbid, convert to some other religion – religion is a non starter under secular administrations (why there is outrage in the US at the evangelical’s pressure on Bush). We ask Muslims to respect our traditions (you are guests) and observe our secular laws and human rights, not your own law: Sharia. That’s it – Sharia is a non starter in secular society!

Well, actually Chris, we are NOT your or anyones’ guests. Millions of Muslims were born in Europe, America and “The West, ” including myself. I am as British as the Queen (more probably considering her family ancestory) and therefore, i am NOT a guest and, although i do respect British tradition, i do not have to partake or agree with every aspect of it. It is my right (as people like yourself claim) to have freedom of choice.

The “assimilation” you speak of has everything to do with our religion because it is Islam that you have a problem with and it is Shariya you have a problem with. We (Muslims) do observe the laws of the land and human rights just as much as anyone else does.

The problem really boils down to one thing, Islam verses Democracy or Secularism or the dominant ideology at the time. Islam has survived every kind of ideology and has outlived it – the same will be true for democracy.

Democracy is being spread by the bullet as we write, so just because you happen to be born in Canada (i assume) does that mean that it will always have your full support and backing? Even if the all democratic powers of the past 100 years have been responsible for the slaughter of millons and millions of people and the invasion of countless countries, most without justification?

Sharia, contary to your understanding and belief, is a blessing, a mercy and the only system capable of solving world problems. i believe this, Muslims believe this, history testifies to this and Allah has informed us as such.

Let me tell you, democracy and secularism has raped and is raping the weaker people of this world. Sharia would never do this.

..and before you start providing links to this and that, there is NO place on earth that has Sharia at the moment.

Not guests? The argument of emigrants everywhere who generations later still cling to some of the ‘values’ (sic) of the shit holes they fled from!

You are in the UK, then stop the terrorist rhetoric that is currently turning the whole EC into a mine field – you won’t of course as some cleric has your ear and jerks you around with his poison, as he collects UK welfare for his family (Hamza)?

Follow your religion – but follow and obey the law first, its all the state asks of its citizens. If you cannot achieve that you must remove yourself, period! Go to Libya, Syria, Iran or Egypt (where Hamza was from, and frightened to return to), there is a State – the US sent terrorist suspects there en route to Guantanamo so that they could be persuaded (sic) to give up information that they could not extract under US law.

Was born in Scotland, a Catholic, good grief, moved to the UK and lived for a couple of decades there. Then N. America including the US & Canada. Ontario, Canada the best of all worlds – a health/welfare system second to none and a government that has just cleared out the Catholic and Jewish tribunals and their rulings, and never acknowledged/permitted Sharia as just too archaic a system with its ‘anti human rights and freedom rulings’ to be even considered in a secular democracy – what all the fuss was about in 2006. The Ontario Conservative opposition ran for election on public funding of religious schools – The Catholic separate school system is still in place, a remnant of Quebec Catholicism – and the Conservatives thought to capitalize on pandering to religious voting blocks (like the evangelicals in the US) – a notion firmly routed by the Ontario electorate.

“…..and before you start providing links to this and that, there is NO place on earth that has Sharia at the moment.”

Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Egypt, Syria, Libya, the Muslim Balkans, etc., and of course everybody’s favorite: Iran – all defacto strict stone-age Sharia fascist societies.

In passing, no religion can solve the world’s problems. Religion has been, and continues to be the bane of humanity, the source of most human conflict throughout history! The ‘fact’ of globalization and resource grabbing is with us, call it what you like, our consumerism depends on it – does not mean it is right, its just an extension of human nature after all – a fact of life!

Even as we were ensuring that Sharia not gain legal acceptance in Ontario, one of out numerous ghettos in the GTA was spawning Oklahoma City (168 civilians dead, 800+ injured, women & children included) style bombers whose targets were to be government and civilian buildings – luckily our CSIS got ahead of these guys (unlike the UK’s Scotland Yard on the 7/7 criminals) and all should expect life-terms – from: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10663276/

“…Police arrested 12 adults, ages 19 to 43, and five suspects younger than 18 Friday and Saturday on charges including plotting attacks with explosives on Canadian targets.
The oldest, Qayyum Abdul Jamal, led prayers at a storefront mosque attended by some 40 to 50 families down the street from his home in a middle-class neighborhood of Mississauga, west of Toronto.

Imam Qamrul Khanson said the language of Jamal’s Friday night prayers had a more aggressive tone than other prayer leaders’, but there was never any talk of terrorism or violence.

Khanson said at least three of the suspects regularly prayed at the Al-Rahman Islamic Center for Islamic Education.

“Here we always preach peace and moderation,” Khanson said at the one-room mosque.

“I have faith that they have done a thorough investigation,” Khanson said of authorities. “But just the possession of ammonium nitrate doesn’t prove that they have done anything wrong….*

….Mike McDonnell, an assistant commissioner with the Mounties, said Saturday that the amount of ammonium nitrate acquired by the alleged terror cell was three times that used to blow up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people and injuring more than 800.

The fertilizer is safe by itself, but when mixed with fuel oil or other ingredients, it makes a powerful explosive….”

* Khanson’s last statement patently absurd, we will go through the charade of ‘innocent until proven…’ of course as that is our way of doing things.

On Saturday, the Pope publicly baptizing Magdi Allam, a pro Zionist Egyptian Muslim living in Italy (for decades) was simple stupidity! http://www.reuters.com/article.....me=topNews

“…Allam, who has been living in Italy for 35 years, has said he was never a very devout Muslim. Still, his conversion to Christianity came as a surprise.

“What amazes me is the high profile the Vatican has given this conversion,” Yaha Sergio Yahe Pallavicini, vice-president of the Italian Islamic Religious Community, told Reuters….”

Allam continues an apostate, as are Hirsi Ali & Salmon Rushdie, and we are working toward a World Court indictment of Islam for the apostasy-barbarity (and other atrocities carried out on Muslim populations by miscreant rulers).

Now that Louise Arbour (who indicted Milosevic) is leaving the UN (driven out by the ‘boy’s club’, that included a vocal Zimbabwe rep, good grief), perhaps we can persuade her to return to the World Court and start a series of ‘crimes against humanity’ indictments of Islam, Israel and the US? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7283088.stm & http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S.....2378470980

As before, religion, the bane of humanity – not for much longer!

Religion, the bane of yourself, Chris. However, there will occur a day in which you will regret the position you took in this life with regards to your Creator. I hope, for your sake, you come to your senses sooner rather than later.

Hello Chris,

As the largest minority community in the West, the Muslim presence here is significant and is often-times watched over by host countries in a hawk-like manner. If the muslim communities in the West refused to assimilate, refused to integrate, refused to abide by the laws of the land – do you honestly think this would be tolerated by the host countries? I think not. The fact is that Muslims have lived peacefully and integrated into Western countries since the early 1900′s. Period. Anything other than this would certainly not allow the community to stay here for so long, in such large numbers. Needless to say if the Muslim communities were to suddenly leave then all aspects of Western infrastructure would be adversely affected: from hospitals to taxi’s.

Extremism is a human condition. It affects mankind in general, regardless of creed and religion. In your eyes the Taliban are extreme. But do not forget Waco, do not forget Columbine. All peoples have extreme elements which need to be addressed. It is not just Muslims who are afflicted with the condition. And just for the record, every terrorist and every extremist needs to be put to justice. If an individual, regardless of faith, is planning on murdering innocent civilians then I am with you in throwing the full weight of the law against that individial.

Regarding Sharia, too much emphasis has been given to its outward manifestation. Ultimately, Sharia is lifeless without its spiritual elements. Most Muslims, let alone Non-Muslims, are not spiritually ready to have Sharia Law. Countries which state they have Sharia are merely ‘enacting Shakespeare without actually understanding what they are reading’.

This is just for information regarding Sharia:

Legal philosophy of Sharia: is encapsulated in the
believer’s prayer, stated in the Qur’an, “Our Lord, give us good in
this life and good in the next, and save us from the punishment of the
Fire.” (2:201)

The legal philosophers of Islam, such as Ghazali,
Shatibi, and Shah Wali Allah explain that the aim of Sharia is to
promote human welfare.

The scholars explain that the welfare of humans is based on the fulfillment of necessities, needs, and comforts.

Necessities
are matters that worldly and religious life depend upon. Their omission
leads to unbearable hardship in this life, or punishment in the next.
There are five necessities: preservation of religion, life, intellect,
lineage, and wealth. These ensure individual and social welfare in this
life and the hereafter.

The Sharia protects these necessities in two ways: firstly by ensuring their establishment and then by preserving them.

To
ensure the preservation of human life, God Most high legislated for
marriage, healthy eating and living, and forbid the taking of life and
laid down punishments for doing so.
God has permitted that
sound intellect and knowledge be promoted, and forbidden that which
corrupts or weakens it, such as alcohol and drugs. He has also imposed
preventative punishments in order that people stay away from them,
because a sound intellect is the basis of the moral responsibility that
humans were given.
Marriage was legislated for the preservation
of lineage, and sex outside marriage was forbidden. Punitive laws were
put in placed in order to ensure the preservation of lineage and the
continuation of human life.
God has made it obligatory to
support oneself and those one is responsible for, and placed laws to
regulate the commerce and transactions between people, in order to
ensure fair dealing, economic justice, and to prevent oppression and
dispute.
Needs and comforts
Needs
and comforts are things people seek in order to ensure a good life, and
avoid hardship, even though they are not essential. The spirit of the
Sharia with regards to needs and comforts is summed up in the Qur’an,
“He has not placed any hardship for you in religion,” (22:87) And, “God
does not seek to place a burden on you, but that He purify you and
perfect His grace upon you, that you may give thanks.” (5:6)

Therefore, everything that ensures human happiness, within the spirit of Divine Guidance, is permitted in the Sharia.

If
the legal dimension of the Sharia gives Islam its form, the spiritual
dimension is its substance. The spiritual life of Islam, and its goal,
was outlined in the Divine statement (mentioned above).

The
Prophet explained spiritual excellence as being, “To worship God as
though you see Him, and if you see Him not, [know that] He nevertheless
sees you.

The spiritual life of Islam is a means to a realization
of faith and a perfection of practice. It is to seek the water that the
Sharia is the clear path to, water that gives life to minds and souls
longing for meaning.

It is this spiritual life, at its various
levels, that attracts Muslims to their religion, its way of life, and
to the rulings of the Sharia.

Fancy rhetoric, ultimately nonsense in the light of current inaction by the community on extreemists.

And clearly you need a tutorial on understanding-Democracy? Suggest read Tony Benn, quite the most articulate on the subject in the UK: tonybenn.com

Am done here – Hamza, will return to the stars, as we all will, with no regrets as I did not mutilate my daughters in ‘the name’ and was always true to my belief that we ‘indict’ to the full extent of the-law those who traffic in human lives and misery while denying these hapless their inheritance: individual human rights and freedom. Please don’t concern yourself on my behalf – my course is set and when the Hadith review is complete we will have ‘precedent’ to take on the ilk of Ahmadinejad, the Saudi Royalty, et al at the World Court.

In Ontario, couples used Sharia tribunals voluntarily, and a growing number of women who sought divorce (generally, physical abuse to them and the children cited) were found to be left homeless, penniless (unable to afford to retain counsel) and cut off from children and family – this became a crisis in the community. Also, the ‘get’ in Jewish tribunal decisions was withheld for long periods, again causing financial distress for women. The Catholic Church cover up of priest child abuse was legion here also, with Church assets being liquidated currently to pay settlements. We persuaded the Ontario government to declare: ‘enough’ and all tribunal rulings were overturned with a requirement they be renegotiated under the common-law. Hirsi Ali figured largely in the review as she brought a “victim’s” perspective on the criminality of Sharia to our legislators – no wonder you want her dead! As before, Sharia is a non-starter in a democracy.

The corruption of democracy in the US has to do with money of course. Religious corruption (alternate interpretations of ancient/archaic texts by those with an agenda) a fact, for centuries and has led to ever more opposition to the edicts of cleric conservatives – I see religion as completely out of the political arena within a couple of decades. On Canadian Islam, a prominent Egyptian Imam, resident now in Montreal, confirms that the majority of Imams (and pretenders) in North American are without formal religious training and cannot even read the Koran as have no understanding of Arabic – they use translations (many questionable) from various sources when they address their-following. Just cannot see how a movement based in questionable translations (trust the Ankara Hadith review will sort this out?) can expect to survive the ‘human rights first’ principles of secular democracy as more become better educated in the freedom of expression those of us in the West are guaranteed. Also, a proper beacon of democracy, the World Court, must emerge as Champion of Universal Human Rights, displacing the US and their self absorbed imperialist-democracy (sic)!

Be well, go in peace!

Thanks Chris, it is always good to discuss even if we have opposite views of the world

Hamza

The ‘Natives’ are not so squeaky-clean either:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_.....316601.stm

that’s very true! imagine (Allah forbid) that a Muslim killed this girl, Islam would again be accused and Muslims abused. the article didn’t read “Christian fundamentalist murdered girl” or anything similar!

Murder is a reality of any society – surely this BBC item more relavent?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7314636.stm

Van Gogh’s murderer still at large? He pinned a note to Van Goth’s chest with a knife! That’s a hate crime!

You’re missing the point Chris. You talk about integration. We are integrated. Just not the way YOU like.

We can point fingers at each other for all eternity. Fact is, like you say, murder is a reality of any society. Why must we be marginalised?

Here’s another sad case for the Natives [and I'm not pointing fingures ]
“Husband let wife starve to death”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_.....318610.stm

Chris, (like i have said in my post) you seem to be one of those people who are judging a whole community because of the actions of the few. Now, what if non white people judged the (white) British as violent, racist, murderers because of the actions of members of the BNP, Combat 18 or other similar ideologies? That would be irrational wouldn’t it? Their violence is hate related too and, although we totally disagree and object, they can back up their actions with an certain ideology.

All white people are not evil and corrupt. similarly, all Muslims aren’t evil and corrupt and Islam is not corrupt.

I would argue it is not the Muslims who have a problem, it is the non Muslims, just look at France where they will stop a 15 year girl from entering school because she is wearing a hijab.

Muslim history testifies to the acceptance of other cultures and religions, in fact, Islam goes out of it’s way to accommodate them. There is no forceful conversion, there is no forceful removal of crosses or Jewish hats or Hindu face paint.

The problem is with others.

And yesterday Ahmadinejad got into the Dutch debate: http://www.reuters.com/article.....6420080328 And he runs the second or third most repressive regime on basic human rights on the planet! Also related: http://www.reuters.com/article.....6420080328 Meanwhile Iran’s influence arming Militias in Basra has that oil city about to re-explode – the 4,500 Brits at the airport nearby simply set to leave Iraq and US ‘coalition failure’ charges (no backbone) about to be leveled by Washington as they know they have to take over the heavy lifting to avoid losing the Basra oil-spoils to Iran!

You miss what I’m about – its individual human rights! The teenagers who isolated and killed the Goth girl are just acting out the teenage bully years, the girl a helpless victim, similar with a man who starves his disabled wife. Both incidents, as Columbine, totally outrageous and felony’s as the perps knew better: they knew the Law, and that it was established to protect the innocent.

Not so under Sharia, clerics who hold enormous power ‘make it up’ as they go along: death for apostasy for Hirsi Ali, and also Salmon Rushdie courtesy that monumental cretin: Khomeini. Islam utters death threats and its OK with you guys? I work in the-Law and as before, Sharia tribunals in Ontario were chucking women out on the street, penniless and the Muslim community was complicit in turning their collective back on ‘apostasy’ (sic) by abused women just looking for their human-rights – they got it, when we were done, and those male macho perps/pricks severely financially sanctioned by family courts (the veil needed to cover bruises on most of these women, who would not even press charges against the monsters). My greatest challenge is getting the World Court to indict Islam for the Hirsi Ali death threat – it will be a start! The prosecution of the ilk of Theo Van Gogh’s killer should just be legal house-keeping for the Dutch – perplexed that the guy still unindicted, but working it? The line has been drawn, get your house in order or face the legal barrage we are determined to bring down on your ghetto mentality – practice your religion, follow the law and ensure every individual’s human rights are observed by your communities in the West (not much we can do about the stone age barbarism in Sharia Fundamentalist States) and we will have no quarrel.

Ontario funds TVO, similar to the US, PBS but much more open and socially constructive, in my view. Last evening a spirited debate around evolution, basically: Is Faith Inevitable? And on Wednesday “Muslim Extremism Online” – pretty in your face stuff as we don’t put up with censorship/coercion here, we are all this vocal but respect each other’s rights and the law: http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/theagenda/ Enjoy the video links.